Thursday, July 11, 2013

Reflections on Our Hiring a Woman


The following are the reflections I gave Sunday morning, July 7th, upon the announcement of our Ministry in Residence program with Naomi Walters.  I realize that these reflections have spread far and wide already, but it seemed strange if they were absent from my blog.  I will note that these are reflections upon an announcement not a substantially developed position in support of gender equality.  For that I direct you to  http://gal328.org/resources/congregational-studies-and-statements-on-gender/ where you find some other writings.  The same website will point you to an extensive bibliography for further study and reflection.

*****

"This is a big Sunday here at the Stamford Church of Christ.  This is a landmark summer, and this is a big Sunday when we formally announce our one-year Ministry in Residence with Naomi Walters starting in September.  And so I decided to break from our series on Philippians and share with you more personally my own thoughts on this auspicious occasion.

I begin by thinking back to how I became a minister.  To many people it seemed fore-ordained.  I was a minister’s kid, more precisely, a minister’s son; so when I was in my very early teens I was already preaching sermons in small country congregations near where we lived.  I am glad that this was long before the days of audio-visual record and that there remains no evidence of those sermons, but it just seemed natural that I would be a minister. 

Well, natural to everyone but me.  So I  took a detour on the way to ministry, studied pre-med, then psychology, then sociology, and only when I was already in graduate school in sociology at the University of Michigan did I feel drawn back to studying religion.  And that’s what I was drawn to, studying religion not necessarily ministry.  I was fascinated by Jesus and by things spiritual, but about ministry I was reluctant. 

Still when three years later I graduated from Harding Graduate School of Religion, I already had a job waiting for me with a mission church in East Brunswick, New Jersey sponsored by the Madison Church of Christ in Tennessee.  A year later I had a job waiting for me at Michigan Christian College, now Rochester College.  Two years after that I was here.

Naomi’s path was a bit different.  No one expected her to be a minister.  To no one – except perhaps God – was it fore-ordained.  Many people otherwise close to her did not want her to be a minister.  Still she graduated from Rochester College in Michigan with a major in Biblical Studies and a minor in Counseling.  She then went on to Abilene Christian University where she excelled academically and received her M.Div.  There was no job waiting for Naomi.  It was well-known in ACU circles and circles that spread out from there that Naomi Walters was exceptionally skilled at preaching.  I heard her name, and I heard she was the best, long before I ever met her.  But no one was lined up to offer her a job.  For one reason only – she was a woman.

Other women in her position, and there are others, in increasing numbers all the time, are simply leaving the Churches of Christ, but Naomi choose a different track and determined to do her very best to stay within our fellowship.  Almost two years ago, she and Jamey began driving up here from Princeton, New Jersey passing East Brunswick (where I began) on the way.  This past Christmas Day they brought into our lives dear little Simon.  This summer Naomi begins an on-line D. Min. program at David Lipscomb University in Nashville, Tennessee.  The D. Min. program is a practical program that supposes you already have a ministry position and ministerial experience.  The wise people who run David Lipscomb’s D. Min. program made an exception for Naomi.  But no one else did.  No churches did.  No churches offered her an opportunity to gain ministerial experience. 

That is, until Naomi summoned up her courage and approached us wondering if we might be able to find a way to give her at least part-time ministerial experience.  So conversations began and then on Sunday, May 16th, she met for an extensive interview with our elders and ministers.  We were all blown away.  E-mails flew back and forth – the morning-after gist of which were, “Wow!  Could you believe that interview?”  Most of us had been part of many interviews; few of us had ever seen a person who interviewed as well as Naomi, who came across with her poise, wisdom and spiritual insight. 

So we proposed a part-time year-long Ministry in Residence position for Naomi to all of you, and the response was strongly supportive.  As the current minister here, the support seemed maybe too strongly supportive.  My favorite response was in an email from Kelly Beel, “What about you, Dale?  You won’t be giving the sermon?”  Thank you, Kelly.  But that seemed to trouble no one else, and in fact wasn’t the case anyway.  I will be giving sermons.  Lots of them.  And they will likely be listened to with the same measure of interest and indifference as usual.  The larger point is this proposal was strongly supported.  So we sent Naomi an offer letter which she signed.  And that brings us to this day, Sunday, July 7th, 2013.

Still I am struck by the difference between my story and Naomi’s.  All because of gender.  And I am deeply disappointed that Churches of Christ have made such slow progress on all this.  Too many ministers who know better, who agree with what we are doing here, are simply, for the sake of survival, I guess, staying silent.  Too many churches are being held back by the traditional views of just one or two of elders (even when most elders are open to progress).  Too many people in the pews who have nothing to lose are sitting this out; in the process they risk losing much.

All this does not auger well for Churches of Christ.  I am by academic training a historian, so I find it natural to think historically, to catch a sense of the flow of history and to from that map out where the future will be taking us.  One day almost all churches will be gender egalitarian.  Outside of Catholicism, most in the West already are.  One day Catholicism will be.  And those movements that prove resistant to this will be in serious decline.  Again, for most the decline has already begun.

I do not doubt that many people who resist change on this are acting in good faith.  But they are not studying the Bible.  They are not doing their homework.  They do not seek the original intent of Scripture nor do they seek to understand Scripture in its historical context.  So they do not understand that those passages that restrict women’s participation in public worship – 1 Corinthians 14:33-35 and 1 Timothy 2:9-15 – address specific circumstances in the particular cultural context of their original first-century audiences.  They do not understand that Paul is calling his readers to live gracefully as disciples of Christ within the strongly patriarchal patterns of their day.  They do not understand that he is guiding Christians in the setting in which they live; he is not advocating their patriarchal, even misogynistic, setting for all time.  So they do not distinguish between what the New Testament says about the new life in Christ and the degree to which it was possible to implement this in first-century culture.  As a result, although they would no longer use the teaching, “Slaves, obey your earthly masters” (Ephesians 6:5-9; Colossians 3:22-4:1; Titus 2:9-10) to defend slavery in our time, they will still use 1 Corinthians 14:33-35 or 1 Timothy 2:9-15 to silence women’s voices in our public assemblies in our time.

This is a big Sunday.  This is landmark summer, and this is a big Sunday.  By giving Naomi this ministerial experience we are fulfilling the vision of Peter in Acts 2:17-21 that God has poured out his Spirit on all people, both men and women; our sons and our daughters will prophesy.  By insisting in this place that the use of God-given gifts will not be restricted on the basis of gender, we are being true to the spirit of Christ, true to the goodness in the gospel, true to the freedom we have in Christ, and true to the original intent and the historical context of the texts in question.  We help end patterns of prejudice and discrimination that bring shame to churches in our time.  We save our sons and daughters, and we play our part in seeing that women everywhere are treated with the same respect that men just naturally are by virtue of their being male.

In hiring Naomi to this part-time Ministry in Residence we are of course stepping out in faith in many ways, including our absorbing her $20,000 in salary.  We did not budget for this.  And so we ask those of you who can to give toward offsetting her salary.  And we will be asking people across the country who support what we are doing, who see the significance, even the necessity, of churches providing ministerial experience to women like Naomi, to help us in this.                      

TOGETHER we will build a future in which people will no longer be held back or held down simply by how they were born, where all people will be respected, honored and empowered not for how they were physically born but for how they are spiritual reborn.  The gospel will again be heard as gospel that is for all the people.  And the world will know that we all live in a world lit by resurrection and open to the Spirit of God, a world of amazing possibilities, a world where grace reigns, a world where in all things God works for our good, a world where we are all called to be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God, and that this is as true for women as it is for men."



22 comments:

  1. As a member of ministerial team at the Stamford Church of Christ I want to welcome Naomi to the joys and challenges of ministry. I have been blessed to have served as the minister of involvement using the spiritual gifts that God has given me over the years. The church has always been encouraging, supportive and a place of refuge for me. I can only hope that Naomi's experiences here are as rewarding. May God bless this year. Debbie Pauls

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  2. John W

    Two thoughts, Dale:

    How many times in our everyday and work lives have we been part of bringing about some specific initiative, program or change. We work onver exgtended periods of time to make sure all stakeholders have a chance to participate and have their voices heard throughout the process only to come to a critical decision point and have the initiative defeated by a late comer who weighs in without doing homework to understand the context or facts surrounding the issue. I am thankful for the time, effort, research and outreach that was invested at the Stamford Church of Christ to reach a decision to be a gender neutral church. I shudder at the thought of keeping participation doors closed to the gifted, talented, smart and devoted women and girls that are part of our church family.

    My other thought has to do with responding to God given gifts, especially to ministry. Can you imagine our Creator saying, "women need not apply." Ours is a church loaded with men, women, girls, and boys that want to say, "Here I am Lord, choose me" to do my part in service to your will. God has jobs for all of us.

    As an elder at the Stamford Church of Christ I want to do my part to support initiatives backed by careful biblical study, context centered research and service oriented hearts.

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  3. Stamford Church has been my home for my entire life and I am proud of the barriers that this family has broken down over the years. I also find myself bewildered that these barriers still need to be broken down at all. When I speak to this with friends not associated with Churches of Christ they are all so confused. Their faces say so "what's the big deal!" I know in the context of CoC it is a big deal and I applaud the work being done. And I applaud those who have stuck with the CoC nudging it forward instead of jumping ship. But in context of today's world the churches, and in particular CoC, Catholicism and others, are very much lagging behind. It is my hope that Stamford will not have to defend it's flanks, can push past all equality issues, and continue the path toward being God's hand in this world in a way that will make my nonCoC friends sit up and listen.

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  4. Clark and I were so thankful to be a part of such a blessed event on our last Sunday at SCC. Thank you Dale and elders for having the courage to stand up for what is right. God has been guiding you all and preparing you for this moment. And now, hopefully, many other churches will gain strength from your actions to do the same in their congregations. May you all continue to use the skills and gifts God has given you to further His kingdom. We will do our best to spread the love out here in Colorado! Love and miss you all!

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  5. Congratulations on your Churches of Christ historic moment. You represent equal opportunity, which is the right thing to do.

    Unfortunately equality is still having to be justified which is sad. Whether it's gender/racial/sexual/economic/religious or other types, equality should be a given. We shouldn't have to convince each other that equality is what's best for our world. And for people who justify inequality, it's just getting old. I'd be interested in some reasons other than personal insecurity why people would support inequality of any kind. And inequality as a characteristic of the world isn't good enough. We've got to be better. If our leaders are promoting it then we need new voices. If people are okay with inequality because their politician/minister/priest/teacher, etc tells them to then we need more people to start thinking for themselves. We've got to be better than this as a society. If we're supposed to treat others with dignity, respect, and better yet the same treatment we'd want to be treated with then how can we rationalize prejudicial behavior? That's just hypocrisy.


    Good for Naomi, good for the Churches of Christ and good for society as a whole.

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    1. Mr. Pogoda, this church does not in any way represent the Churches of Christ and therefore does not qualify as a Churches of Christ historic moment. Man has perverted the gospel to suit their own needs, but that does not make it the truth.
      "I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." (Gal. 1:6-8)

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    2. Ah janice thank you very much for your comment. It makes me very pleased that your feel you can express yourself on this blog. Certainly we are all fortunate that society has progressed to where anyone (in your case a woman) is able to comment and be as equally heard for her ideas as a man (in this case myself). Obviously during the time of the author's writing to the galatians that was not the case as women were not free to give their input into religious beliefs. With your comment I guess I am concerned about the misguided truth that you quote. Is there a quote by Jesus that references equality as being a misguided truth? Also, I was wondering if you could reference the trouble paul was warning the galatians about and what may have been the concern as the author does not specifically express in your chosen quote. I would guess it would require some interpretation on your part seeing as though we don't currently live in that time period.

      Secondly it seems as though you have a sense of being threatened or worried based on your response and that chosen passage. If you could elaborate in your own words what fears you have and why you feel threatened I think everyone would be interested in learning your perspective on why equality is a dangerous idea (in this case for women being able to preach to everyone/serve as ministers in the Churches of Christ). Thanks very much for your time.

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    3. My thoughts and prayers are with your congregation. Please consider this passage from the Bible, which was given by inspiration:

      1 Timothy 2:9-15
      New International Version (NIV)
      9 I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10 but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.

      11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women[c] will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

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    4. Janice,
      I hope your next reply will answer my previous questions which I'll ask again in case you misread them from my previous post:

      1. Please reference a quote attributed to Jesus that justifies inequality, particularly when it comes to women in church leadership positions.

      2. How and why does equal opportunity in church leadership make you hesitant/insecure?


      Your Timothy quotes are interesting but they aren't attributed to Jesus which I would think being a Church of "Christ" member that would be more relevant than a passage from an unknown writer in 1st/2nd century AD to a community in what is now Turkey (letter may have been Paul but recent scholarship suggests otherwise given certain contradictions from other letters). Hopefully you can respond by giving your own perspective and opinion as that is a vital part of an "interpretive center."


      Thanks again!

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    5. Mr. Pogoda,
      Those of us in the Church see the Bible as the whole, inspired Word of God. Just because it wasn't Jesus who spoke the words, doesn't mean we disregard it. 2 Timothy 3: 16-17 says that "All scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." All the writers of the Bible were inspired by the Holy Spirit to write the things they wrote. Paul was an apostle of Jesus. It was his purpose to spread the Gospel and teach the churches of that time and in turn teach us today.
      Although I do not agree with the decision of hiring a woman a pulpit minister based on my study of scripture, every church is to autonomous. As a woman I have no desire to take the position that, to me, was meant for men. It does not an any way make me feel inferior. I know my place before God and I try my best to live it out humbly and worthy as possible. For I am made whole in Christ and my hope is in heaven. I do desire to bring as many to Christ as possible but do not feel being a pulpit minister is the way God intended for me as a woman to do that.
      I do not see it fair to say that those of us who see the scriptures that Dale has stated differently are not studying the Bible. To me, God is unchanging and so is His word. God has His reasons for making us different than a man, and I feel confident in His decisions. I may not be able to understand it fully now, but one day, I will know when I see His face!

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    6. Noah,
      Thank you for your comments but I'm confused. So your take is that writers who were as you say divinely inspired that provide instructions should be regarded as 100% truth? If what is written about Jesus then says something different than what the writers after him instruct (which is the case with Paul) then who do you believe and how do you decide which is more legitimate? What is your process of interpretation in order to understand these different perspectives? Do you believe that Jesus would support equality in ministerial positions as it relates to church ministry based on gender? Not whether Paul believes it but whether Jesus as you claim to know Jesus would believe it.

      If Naomi feels a calling by God to be a minister is it not the same as a man feeling called by God to be a minister? Is her calling not valid solely because she is a woman? How is anyone able to decide who's calling is legitimate when it is no one but that person experiencing that calling?

      As a side question I'm curious as to what experiences in your life have led you to believe in your heart that women are not "meant" as you say to be pulpit ministers or if you believe that solely based on your interpretation of Scripture and it has nothing to do with your life experiences?


      Thanks for your comments.

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    7. Mr. Pogoda,
      To answer your first question, yes, all scripture should be regarded as the truth. As far as differences in instruction, I'm not sure what you are referring to? I have found no inconsistencies in what Jesus taught and what any other writers taught. And for that matter, the whole Bible was written by men, not Jesus. So if you trust what Matthew, Mark, Luke and John wrote about Jesus, why wouldn't you trust what the others wrote? Paul knew Jesus. He met Him on the road to Damascus when he was blinded and Jesus revealed Himself to Saul (Paul). Anyway, the church was not established until after Jesus ascended back into heaven in Acts 2 on the day of Pentecost. So of course Jesus did not give instructions to churches, only to His apostles. They received the gift of the Holy Spirit and were guided by it in all their teachings (Acts 2).
      As for Naomi, I don't know her. But I do know a "feeling" can be a deception sent from Satan. I don't see the Bible as cultural or of that time. God is unchanging and so is His word which guides us into all truth. As for the slave issue, there are still slaves today in this world, so if you say that the bible is cultural, is it not legitimate to those?
      My calling is to Love the Lord my God with all my heart, all my soul and with all my mind and to love my neighbor and myself (Matt. 22:37-39). Then to go into all the world and spread the Gospel (Mark 16:15-16). I don't base my calling on a "feeling" but on the truth that I find in God's word. It was nothing I experienced but what I have studied in the Bible that has lead me to this conclusion.
      We can't make God what we want Him to be based on what we want or feel. He is who He is and will always be. "But who are you, o man, to talk back to God? 'Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'why have you made me like this?'" Romans 9:20.
      I hope this explains my position better. And btw, my name is Becky. Noah is my son.

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    8. Becky,
      Still confused but I'll try and make sense of what you're saying and you can let me know if it's correct, how I'm interpreting what you are saying. But first off, not sure what slavery has to do with anything as I never mentioned anything about slavery. Slavery is and has always been wrong and any justification for it is nonsense, literally not making sense. Paul as you say was blinded by Jesus on the road but he was not an follower of Jesus in the sense of living with Jesus during his time on Earth. So he didn't experience the life of Jesus as others had despite this revelation as you say. Of course Jesus didn't literally give instructions to churches, we all know that since he was a Jew and there no churches. But his actions and words to his disciples are what I would think the basis of what the first churches were founded upon, at least what they were told he said and did. Or they would have been solely Jewish communities, not Christian.

      I think I'm most fascinated by your comment that Naomi's calling to serve God as a pulpit minister is a deception of a feeling of hers that came from Satan (your words). I'm sure she and others who have felt inspired by God and the Bible would appreciate your "loving your neighbor as yourself" in that way. You proclaim your calling to follow Jesus' Golden Rule yet you judge someone for their desire to serve and love God as best they can and know how. And your reason is that she's been deceived by Satan. Is that right?


      So assuming your idea that Satan uses our feelings to deceive us in our intention to serve God, what about the calling your minister felt to serve God? Because he's a man it's a legitimate calling even though by your thinking his inspiration and feeling to be a pulpit minister could well be a deception by Satan? How about the apostles and their "inspiration by the Holy Spirit?" They would surely have had feelings based on their inspiration but according to your logic those feelings could have been works of Satan as well. Or is that not fair because they were men and their callings and inspirations should not be viewed with the same skepticism as a woman's?

      Based on your words I'm sure you've been inspired by your faith and the Bible and what is written. When you've studied the Bible you must have felt something to have so much conviction in your beliefs. Are those feelings of inspiration and desire to better live out your faith not justified because you're a woman? I think not, they seem justified to me because it's your experience with your Bible study, who am I to judge what you have interpreted as a result and what you have decided your calling to be? And I don't judge you because your beliefs and experiences and feelings have impacted the conviction you have. Which is natural and normal. All I would ask from you and your entire Christian community who share your belief on inequality is to give the same respect and love of one's neighbor as your proclaim to live your life by for those women who have different gifts than you and can share them in different ways as you do for your male ministers and leaders who maybe have had a similar calling. I think for whatever you feel called to be in your life you deserve every opportunity to meet that calling and live it as best you can, and I believe that Jesus would have the same compassion and love and hope that I and many others have based on the stories and the words and sacrifices he made. And I believe the same is true for Naomi and any person who feels inspired by God and wants to use their talents to make the world a better place because we can certainly use more accepting and understanding and loving people in the world. If the Golden Rule is not telling us to reserve judgment, to give equal opportunity as we ourselves would want it, to treat others and their inspirations with dignity and respect, etc, etc, then what is the Golden Rule exactly and why should we live by it?

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    9. I mentioned the part about slavery because Dale had used it in his statement about Eph. 6:5 and said that that was a cultural issue too. But I was begging to differ saying that there are slaves today, not saying that it is right or that God thinks so, but this world is not our home and who or what we are on this earth is totally different than what we will be in our true home of heaven. If we happen to be a slave on this earth, then we should obey the person we are working for. If we are women we are to learn in quietness in a worship setting (1 Timothy 2:11).
      In Jesus' prayer for His disciples in John 17 He says,"They are not of the world even as I am not of it. Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth." I consider the whole Bible to be God's truth. You can't just pick and choose what you think is truth from it. It's a package deal. Paul was considered an Apostle by all the other Apostles because He came into contact with Jesus on that road to Damascus. So, I would say that that prayer was for him too and he was sanctified by the truth therefore I believe what he wrote to be truth.
      As for Naomi again, I didn't say she was deceived and I'm sure she made her decision on more than a feeling. But I do know Satan is roaming around seeking whom he may devour (1 Peter 5:8). Who do you think he would rather destroy, the world or the church? And what better way to do that than to let someone think that the word of God is "cultural" in some books. Just because a woman cannot lead over a man in worship doesn't mean I don't live out my faith. I live it daily and can do that without being a pulpit minister. There are plenty of roles for women to fill in God's kingdom without us trying to fill what was meant for a man. Our "calling" is to hear the word of God, believe it, repent of our sins, confess Jesus as Lord and Savior, be baptized for the forgiveness of our sins and live a faithful life until death. What we do while here on this earth until Jesus comes is a choice not a calling and that choice needs to be based on what is read in God's word. I am not trying to disrespect Naomi for her decision, I am simply stating that there are some of us in the church that, based on our study, see her decision to lead in worship over men, is wrong. We are to be set apart from this world and, to me, to say that the scripture in 1 Timothy is "cultural" is giving into the world. If we give into the world and what it says is the right way to go, then we look just like it. "There is a way that seems right to man, but in the end it leads to death." Proverbs 16:25. I'm not judging anyone as you are using the word judge (condemning), I'm discerning what is right and wrong based on scripture. God will be the judge. The golden rule would also include: that if you were doing something wrong in the sight of God wouldn't you want a fellow christian to love you enough and respect you enough to tell you you were in the wrong so that your soul might be saved? Galations 6:1. Christianity isn't "everyone do what you feel is right," it's following God's commands. Jesus said, "If you love Me, you'll obey what I command." John 14:15. Not, if you love me you can do what you feel is right. It has nothing to do with human acceptance, but all to do with God's acceptance.
      Becky

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    10. Here is what you said about Naomi:

      "As for Naomi, I don't know her. But I do know a 'feeling' can be a deception sent from Satan."

      If she made her decision on more than a feeling (which it sounds like in her speech it was also based on her Biblical study) does that mean it's okay for her to lead in ministry if she is as dedicated to Scripture as you are but comes to a different conclusion (as people throughout history have done)? So if Naomi leads a church from the pulpit as a minister genuinely she's following a Satanic deception? If you had said you don't approve but we'll judge her decision based on the fruits of her actions and words then at least that's a reasonable objection and you would be, for a time, reserving judgment. Seems like the "Christian" thing to do at the least. But you have not said that, and therefore have judged her by saying her inspirations are not from God when you have not the slightest clue into what her calling entails. Especially when you said God will be the judge.


      You are free to be be judgmental and disrespectful to Naomi and other women like her because it's not how nice you say things or what Bible passages you give to justify your judgment that makes it that way. It's simply that for all your studying of Jesus you are unable to see the diversity in which God inspires us and calls us to Him and the variety of ways we are touched by God's Spirit. You have not yet seen how Jesus defended the lowly, the persecuted, the poor, the marginalized, and anyone else who had been casted aside by the Romans or his fellow Jews and their elders in their means of power and authority. If nothing else Jesus gave people a chance in their lives when others did not. I hope through your continued studying you will. For telling Naomi and women like her that a woman is unequal to a man in the eyes of God in societal/ministerial roles is disrespectful and without knowing her own conversation with God is judgmental. And you are free to interpret Scripture literally and may hold whatever belief makes you feel better and more secure. But thankfully those of you who support gender inequality will not sway the strong faith of women who are genuinely inspired by God's love because their motivation of Love is stronger than the desire to hold people down and dictate what they should do and believe. It is your right to feel that way based on your conviction and studies (which by definition requires your own perspective in understanding and not just robotic memorization). But to say then you follow the Golden Rule of Love is pure hypocrisy and I feel sorry for you. If my acceptance of people and my love and my hope for understanding and learning and growing in God's Spirit is wrong then I can live with that as I'm sure God will accept me anyways.

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    11. As a woman I feel no inequality in God's kingdom. And I'm sure that is not why Naomi chose the path she chose. Again, I still did not say that she was deceived. I said I know someone can be. Jesus gave people a chance at eternal life in heaven, not here on this earth. That's what matters. We are made whole in Christ and that is what he gives all of us, then and now. Believe you me, I know what Jesus has done for me! During Jesus ministry He was making Himself known as the Messiah, The epistles are written to churches of people who were already Christians and that were already established and were being given instruction and praise into what they were doing. And there is no diverse way God calls us. There is only one way to Him and that is through Jesus which is clearly stated in scripture. I don't doubt that Naomi is a devoted Christian and that she has great knowledge of the Bible, but I don't see the scripture as "cultural." Just because I'm stating my stand doesn't mean I'm judgmental or disrespectful. If that were the case, I could say the same about you. For that is what you are doing with me by saying I'm just robotically quoting scripture and not understanding it. Obviously you feel the golden rule doesn't apply to you. And why wouldn't I quoted scripture in a discussion like this? It holds all authority in my life. How else would someone come to Christ unless they have read the word or had it shown to them? I do not need your pity. I don't dictate the word, God has.

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    12. If you read my comments I've said you have every right to believe what you will. However, if your "stand" prohibits people's rights then I find that disrespectful to those people. Maybe others don't but I'm only writing on behalf of myself. You, yourself, decided her inspiration (Satanic or otherwise) was unfounded without knowing her. That's called being judgmental. But you don't see it that way; I get it and we'll move on. When you deny someone equal opportunity, saying that's what God wants, that's the fruit of your belief for us all to know.


      I'm not judging you on following your conviction because we all follow our own the best we can. I'm disappointed, however, that you won't give Naomi the same opportunity you'd give any man simply because she is a woman. In the end that's what this blog posting is about. Either we can support women like Naomi (in agreement or disagreement) and allow them the opportunity to bear their fruit or we can tell them they have no right to do what they believe they are inspired by God to do. Everyone knows now where the two of us stand.

      Your comments have been very enlightening as they represent a good number of Christians living today I imagine and how the issues people face today (especially women and minorities) will impact Christianity moving forward. While we very much disagree I thank you for your thoughts and comments and appreciate your perspective as it will help me to understand better those with views like yours. Have a good one!

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    13. The thing you refuse to see is that it's not my stand, it's God's. 2Thesselonians 2:15. I'm not denying anyones rights and neither does God, but what the world sees as "rights" are different for the Christian. For in Christ we lose our sinful self and gain everything. Galations 2:20, 1 Corithians 7:23-24. I'll just let the scripture speak for itself and leave it at that.

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    14. I refuse to see that God wants people treated unequally....yes you are correct, I don't see or believe that and I will certainly go on the record for that any hour of any day. You don't have to deny that you're denying someone else's rights because it's obvious you are, we get it (i.e. a woman's right to be a Christian minister in your church). And if the world sees equality and equal opportunity and love and support of one another as "right," then I think the world will have understood Jesus' Golden Rule just fine. How you have decided to interpret "loving someone else" and how I interpret it are vastly different. In my world, the fruits of someone's love and compassion speak much more to the truth of God than any sentence or phrase, Bible or otherwise.

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  6. I am excited and grateful that Naomi is joining the Stamford Church of Christ as a Minister in Residence. I have found her views to be spiritually filled and well supported by scripture, vividly expressed and easily relatable. I also believe her insights regarding Churches of Christ and Christianity today from a "real time, in the trenches" academic/educational perspective will be a great asset to our church family. And there's the added bonus that she's such a lovely and approachable person!

    I think Stamford Church has made an excellent choice to support a very talented, dedicated and giving woman and, as mentioned, has set a tremendous example for other Churches. By saying yes to Naomi we are saying yes to spiritual growth, both hers and ours, and taking an emphatic stand on Christ's undying message of inclusion for all peoples.

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  7. Congratulations to Stamford for deciding to follow Jesus, as best it could collectively divine His Will after years of study and reflection. With Stamford acting on its convictions, we will have the opportunity to judge the tree by its fruit, always the best arbiter of the accuracy of our interpretation.

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  8. As exciting as it is to have youth in our church and a great voice and talent as Naomi's, I still raise my question... What about Dale? Just kidding... I love having Dale as my pastor he is amazing, very intellectual and very caring. It will be great to hear Naomi as well she is a sweet talented girl. Congrats to her.

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